AMY GOODMAN: this is democracy now!, democracynow.Org, the war and peace report. I’m amy goodman. “not backing down: israel, free speech, and the battle for palestinian human rights.” that’s the title of the panel set to take place histiocytoma in dogs images saturday at the university of massachusetts amherst. Three anonymous umass students filed a lawsuit to stop the histiocytoma in dogs images event, claiming they’ll, quote, “suffer irreparable harm” if it takes place. But judge robert ullmann ruled on thursday the event can histiocytoma in dogs images proceed, saying, quote, “there’s nothing that comes even close to a threat of histiocytoma in dogs images harm or incitement to violence or lawlessness.” meanwhile, the university has backed the event despite the protests, saying it’s committed to the principles of free speech and academic histiocytoma in dogs images freedom.
My view is that it’s a good thing that the organizations are attacking the histiocytoma in dogs images event, because what it does is it serves to shine light histiocytoma in dogs images on the predicament of the palestinian people, who we support. And the more light that is shone on any question histiocytoma in dogs images of human rights, the better, in my view. So, I’m very glad that they’ve failed, though, in a way, if they had succeeded in their legal maneuvers, that might have gone even further to shine light on histiocytoma in dogs images the predicament of the palestinians, which is what this is about.
You know, something that I say at every show I do now, because I fine my speeches down so they’re very short, is, at some point in everybody’s life, they have to decide whether or not they believe in histiocytoma in dogs images the 1948 universal declaration of human rights in paris. If you do—either you believe in it or you don’t; you can’t have it both ways. And so, if you do believe it, then you have to stand up for people’s human rights all over the world, irrespective of their ethnicity or their religion or their nationality, which is what we are doing in this panel at histiocytoma in dogs images the university of massachusetts on saturday.
ROGER WATERS: well, this particular issue is far more divisive than any other. So, I’ve just been on tour for a couple of years histiocytoma in dogs images all over the world. And in many countries, certainly in europe, in france and in germany, I came up against an absolute wall of silence, really, particularly in germany, where nobody in the press, until I spoke to one journalist with a newspaper from histiocytoma in dogs images munich—nobody would speak to me, on the grounds that they had been told that I histiocytoma in dogs images was anti-semitic and that I could not be spoken to. And the germans are very sensitive about jewish affairs, and, in consequence, they are not open to even speaking—even speaking about human rights within the context of palestine.
ROGER WATERS: OK. Well, it’s—quite clearly, criticism of any government is nothing to do with anti-semitism, and certainly criticism of the israeli government’s flouting of international law and abuses of human rights histiocytoma in dogs images has nothing to do with the jewish faith or jewish histiocytoma in dogs images people. I’ve had lots of meetings, all over the world, with JVP-sponsored events.
ROGER WATERS: actually, we did one in—the first one we did after I left the states histiocytoma in dogs images was in vancouver. And it wasn’t JVP, but it was another jewish organization, jewish—I can’t remember, something other than voices. And, of course, they are just as humane and care just as much histiocytoma in dogs images about human rights as everybody else does who cares about histiocytoma in dogs images human rights. Unfortunately, the israeli government does not care about human rights, and neither does this government in this country, which is why this administration is supporting the annexing of histiocytoma in dogs images the golan heights and the moving of the embassy to histiocytoma in dogs images jerusalem and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and all the rest of it. So, it is very important that those of us who do histiocytoma in dogs images care organize, meet, have meetings and continue to protest the situation of our histiocytoma in dogs images palestinian friends.
RACHEL WEBER: yes. Zionism is a political movement. And from the very beginning of that movement in the histiocytoma in dogs images late 19th century, there’s been dissent within jewish communities around whether or not histiocytoma in dogs images zionism was a good idea. And, in fact, right around when the balfour declaration was about to be histiocytoma in dogs images enacted, which gave a mandate for—essentially, that was the beginnings of the establishment of the state histiocytoma in dogs images of israel through the british mandate, there were several prominent jewish members of the british jewish histiocytoma in dogs images community that issued a statement in the times of london histiocytoma in dogs images about how this was a dangerous idea. So, there’s been discussion and debate and disagreement about zionism from histiocytoma in dogs images the very beginning within jewish communities.
So, to say that all jews feel that israel—the israeli government speaks for them is—again, it’s inaccurate, and it’s incredibly offensive. I have an absolute obligation to protest injustices that are histiocytoma in dogs images happening in my name, both as a jew and as an american, given the amount of aid and military resources that this histiocytoma in dogs images country gives to israel. It’s actually quite offensive to suggest that just because of histiocytoma in dogs images the—just because of the identities of the people who are histiocytoma in dogs images running the government in israel, that because I share some heritage with those people’s identities, that I would support anything that they do. And there’s a growing voice in this country and around the histiocytoma in dogs images world of jews saying israel does not speak for us, and we have to speak up against the human rights histiocytoma in dogs images abuses that are happening against palestinians.
And to say that any criticism of israel is anti-semitic, it’s incredibly dangerous. And it’s actually bad for jews, because it prevents us from doing the hard work that histiocytoma in dogs images has to happen to contest white supremacy. White supremacy is what is dangerous for jews in this histiocytoma in dogs images country and around the world. And when we use a definition of anti-semitism that includes criticism of israel, that actually divides us from—internally. It’s a huge divide within the jewish community in this histiocytoma in dogs images country. And it also separates us from allies, in working together to fight white supremacy. So, it’s actually—it’s dangerous, obviously, for palestinians, because it makes anyone who stands up for palestinian rights histiocytoma in dogs images fear that they’re going to be accused of being anti-semitic and smeared, just like in this lawsuit. And it’s also dangerous for jews, because it prevents us from working together internally and with histiocytoma in dogs images allies to fight white supremacy.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring in sut jhally again from the histiocytoma in dogs images university of massachusetts, a professor of communications, head of the media education foundation. According to reports, you had hoped to bring the palestinian leader and activist histiocytoma in dogs images hanan ashrawi, but she didn’t receive a visa in time. Is this true? And what do you understand happened?
SUT JHALLY: yes, it’s very true. Again, when I was organizing the event, I sent an invitation to hanan ashrawi, and she replied and said she very much wanted to histiocytoma in dogs images come, but she was waiting for a visa, and that she will be back in touch with me, you know, if she got the visa. And she got back in touch with me about two histiocytoma in dogs images months later and said that she could not include the histiocytoma in dogs images united states in anything she was going to do, because she was not receiving a visa. And so, you know, hanan has been coming to the united states for decades. And I don’t know if people know, but she’s a famed palestinian legislator, an elected representative of the palestinian people. And she cannot now come into the country to talk histiocytoma in dogs images about the issues that confront palestinians. And this goes along with, just two weeks ago, marwan [ sic] barghouti, the founder—the co-founder of BDS, was denied a visa to come in.
So, I think this is—I think what is happening at umass is a kind histiocytoma in dogs images of microcosm of what’s happening everywhere. There is this kind of intense pressure now to make histiocytoma in dogs images sure that the pro-palestinian voices or any kind of rational discussion of israel-palestine does not happen. At umass, it’s to do with—you know, it’s the phone calls. It’s the letters that came in. It’s the lawsuit. And I think this is an act of desperation on histiocytoma in dogs images their part. For example, they knew the injunction would never—would never stop this event from taking place. And so, the question is: why did they go through with it? Why did they spend the thousands of dollars on the histiocytoma in dogs images lawyers to go through the courts? And I think that it was not an attempt to histiocytoma in dogs images stop this event, because they knew they couldn’t. It was an act of intimidation and bullying for the histiocytoma in dogs images next one, to tell people, “if you start to think about organizing events around this histiocytoma in dogs images or start speaking out about this, this is what’s going to come down on you.”
And I think they’re petrified. I think they are terrified of the coalitions that have histiocytoma in dogs images been building between palestinian students and jewish students in organizations histiocytoma in dogs images like students for justice in palestine. They’re terrified of the links that are taking place between histiocytoma in dogs images the battle for black liberation in the united states and histiocytoma in dogs images battle for liberation in palestine. And they want to destroy those and make sure that histiocytoma in dogs images those voices are not heard, through intimidation and threat.
NOAM CHOMSKY: the support for israeli expansionism, repression, the whole alliance that’s developing, that support has shifted in the united states from the histiocytoma in dogs images more liberal sectors—roughly, the democratic party—to the far right. Not very long ago, support for israel was based passionately in the liberal sectors histiocytoma in dogs images of the population. It was a democratic issue. It isn’t anymore. In fact, if you look in the polls, people who identify themselves as democrats by now tend to histiocytoma in dogs images support palestinian rights more than israel. That’s a dramatic change. Support for israel now is in the most reactionary parts histiocytoma in dogs images of the population: evangelical christians, ultranationalists. Basically, it’s a far-right issue. Among younger people, this is even more the case.
AMY GOODMAN: that was noam chomsky, who had just returned to boston, to massachusetts. I was interviewing him at the old south church there. About a thousand people packed into the church. Roger waters, do you feel that kind of optimism? I mean, here, noam chomsky has been so critical of the israeli state histiocytoma in dogs images for so long, and yet he says he feels there is a different histiocytoma in dogs images climate right now.
ROGER WATERS: absolutely. I mean, I’ve been involved in this struggle only for the last histiocytoma in dogs images 12 years. But over those 12 years it has changed dramatically. And noam chomsky is exactly right. And so is sut. They are desperate now. That’s why they pulled this silly legal stunt about this histiocytoma in dogs images meeting in umass. And I’m so happy to see it. And working with people from jewish voice for peace and histiocytoma in dogs images other jewish organizations, as well, has developed dramatically over the years, as the demographic within the jewish community in united states histiocytoma in dogs images has changed, and they’re coming more and more ’round to saying, “not in my name,” and which is hugely encouraging, yeah. I feel overcome, almost, with joy even to be able to speak about it histiocytoma in dogs images in these terms now. And I’m really looking forward to saturday in massachusetts and having—you know, speaking to young people and meeting also the other panelists, all of whom I admire.
ROGER WATERS: my mom. You know, my mother, when I was young, at one point, she said to me, “you know, at some point in your life, you’re going to be faced with difficult decisions. You should think about things, find out as much as you can about anything that histiocytoma in dogs images you’re confronted with, then make up your own mind what it is that histiocytoma in dogs images you’re going to do. There’s nearly always the right thing to do. Just do it.” this is the right thing to do, and I’m just doing it. So, there’s never any sort of question about any of it.
ROGER WATERS: get on board. I mean, a lot of people, a lot of my colleagues in my industry are still histiocytoma in dogs images very frightened of the industry and of the power in histiocytoma in dogs images the industry of the israeli lobby. Just the same as members of congress are still terrified histiocytoma in dogs images of AIPAC and the people who fund their elections. That is still there, but it’s diminishing, which is—
AMY GOODMAN: well, I want to thank you all for being with us, roger waters, co-founder of pink floyd; sut jhally, university of massachusetts amherst professor, founder of the media education foundation; and rachel weber, attorney and member of jewish voice for peace of western histiocytoma in dogs images massachusetts. This is democracy now! We’ll be back in 30 seconds.
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